"Now that this thread it totally off topic ... "

It was about "heaven and eath". You are a little piece of heaven on earth Chuck, so maybe we're still on track in a fashion. LOL

Yes, if my memory serves me correctly, I remember a certain "Dr" suggesting that the Lazarus thread "die the death" or something like that. His comment about dying the death actually caused thngs to revive. A resurrection...how ironic. :)

Now that this thread it totally off topic ... :)

Hal, thanks for the comments. The truth is that my juices get flowing ALL the time. I'm a rather emotional being and in the wake of such, I've spend plenty of time repenting. Actually, the only reason I got a little jazzed about that Laz issue, was because it was being summarily dismissed by preterists using the same old "2,000 years of church history" card they so vehemently decry? I thought the hypocrisy was rather shocking? It seems like the first dissenting comment started something like, "I hope this idea dies a slow and painful death." As was admitted later, some of the most vociferous arguments originated from those who hadn't even read the source material they were attempting to assail.

Sam, you're definitely a mess. LoL And as I said in an earlier post, I've learned a great deal from you by the swiftness with which you have been willing to forgive. God has been working with me on that.

Sir Dr. King Jordan, you still owe me a phone call. :0)

Amen to that, Sam. Sir King Charles is "da man"!! :)

Let me add my comments about Chuck. He is the one who doesn't have much to say but says everything that needs to be said. He is the one that umpires when there needs to be umpires. He is the conscience, the balance, the middle ground. He is the one that says, "hey.....think!" Chuck is the one in the middle. The Sane One. He keeps me on my toes, and lets me know when, perhaps, I should stop and think.......Chuck keeps me from my own worst enemy: me.

Dustion wrote, "Cwooty (I don't know your real name),"

Hal: Dustin, it's CW Coty, or Chuck, Sir Charles, King Charles. Personally, I think of Chuck as "The Archivist" because if you need a link or reference for any preterist audio, video, or artilce, if it's not on his website, Chuck seems to always know where to find it!

He is amazing, and is also really level-headed and calm, (unless you get him talking about the whole "Lazarus and the disciple whom Jesus loved issue" then his juices get flowing....so just don't talk about that, okay? LOL

-Hal

This was an interesting podcast. There are so many interesting subjects to pursue, but oh so little time. Sigh. Thanks for sharing.

martin

Cwooty (I don't know your real name),

I appreciated your comment here. Very well put.

Did you ever have a chance to read my thoughts in response to Sam's review of Don Preston's new book? No one ever said anything. I have emailed and even called Mr. Preston but received no response. He's probably busy debating.

Anyway, I'd love to know what you think.

Robin,
That is a great observation and point.

Glad you guys like the show......

When I first came across a discussion on types & antitypes I had a lot of difficulty trying to understand what they were talking about. And then someone began talking about patterns in scripture with a few examples and the light came on. Patterns which I had seen but up until then thought were only coincidental.

One thing to note in the post cross era is the drought & famine that came upon Jerusalem and how the apostles were involved in gathering a collection for the saints there. Most all the epistles make some mention of it. So I am wondering if we ought not to be able to see similar patterns which are still to be seen today in some of the natural disasters that seem to come upon certain areas fraught either with idolatry and/or wickedness? Because who is it who rushes into help the victims that thanks might be made to God for His help and mercy, for the glory of Christ?

Jason, in reference to your remarks near the end of the show. When many refer to understanding Hebraisms and Hebraic thought (back in the 1st century and earlier), not all are necessarily speaking of the "mindset" or the way the Hebrews processed information, but the context and manner with which Scriptures were written. What I mean, is doing what Don Preston suggests that we ought to be able to do, and that's knowing the 1st Testament so well that we can not only preach the Gospel from it but also be capable of interpreting things like apocalyptic language…recognizing that our modern day wooden literal framework of interpretation is possibly out of step with the context of Scripture. A significant separation of era and culture can be formidable roadblocks.

The first century Jews seemed to have a significant problem moving from the physical to the spiritual. Jesus constantly used metaphors to sharpen the focus of the spiritual, and rarely did they get it. Living water? The leaven of the Pharisees? Eat My body and drink My blood? Say what? Not until the giving of the Holy Spirit did they begin to say in effect, “Oh now I see the program”. Then Peter quotes Joel and they’re off to the apocalyptic races. Things formerly concealed now (then to them) seem abundantly clear.

What I don’t mean is fostering the notion that there’s some sort of ethereal, mystical method by which we need to look at the world. In that recent N.T. Wright vid I posted at SGP (that I retrieved compliments of John S.), I was a little annoyed at the way Wright seemed to subjectify things, almost hinting that logic might somehow be circumvented? As you mentioned, Jason, it sounded erudite and thoughtful but in the end it was hard to glean anything of objective value. If we could just understand the Hebrew mind then all our problems would be solved. Oh really? Well, apparently there are a whole lot of Hebrews who still can’t “see” Jesus’ first coming, so I’m not altogether enamored with their level of illumination.

I know I’m preaching to the choir, and you guys know this far more than I do, but there is a prevalent tendency to think that the New Testament is actually new in the sense that it's bringing entirely new information…when in fact Paul said nothing of the kind. This is how I was brought up in the early years of my Christian life. But as I’ve come to understand, Paul only preached that which had already been written. So that was a valuable lesson and in that sense this is what I think many of us mean by going back and becoming a Hebrew.

The other part of the equation is having a greater understanding and appreciation of Hebrew culture i.e. recognizing that they didn't always write in a straight chronological lines and that, for example, numbers were far more pregnant with meaning then their mere balance sheet representation. These are the things that aid us in interpreting Scripture. That and knowing more fully the conditions of the day and the tensions that existed.

Personally, I hope we never think exactly like first century Hebrews, who quite frankly didn't get a whole lot right. As I said, they missed Christ's first coming, and the plethora of scoffers missed the nature of His second. If they were so accomplished in their own Scriptures, and their world view was so attuned to truth, how could they have thought that "the stars falling from the heavens" on "THE Day" that was fast approaching, was anything less than an old fashioned comprehensive destruction from an invading army?

When the scoffers got word of Peter's first letter, when in it he plainly stated that "the end of all things IS near", they were apparently so blind that they couldn't see the obvious ramifications of the Olivet events being fulfilled like clockwork before their very eyes. The birth pangs were evident to the spiritually attuned. They had all the passages from Isaiah to the Psalms detailing the death, burial and resurrection of Christ, but they chose to ignore them. Isn't this in part the reason Judas (a zealot) turned the Messiah over to the authorities? Certainly he was a money grubbing thief and all of that, but wasn’t his view of the coming Messiah’s political earthly kingdom grossly inconsistent with Jesus’ constant references to His suffering and ultimate death?

So, no, I don't mean that I want to think like a first century Hebrew as though that will somehow magically illumine my thoughts and solve all my interpretational issues. Rather, I want to delve into the language, style and culture with which the first testament was written, so as to be able to be a more faithful Berean. When I see recurring themes of specific numbers like 40 or 12, I want to be able to look past their numerical value to enjoy the fullness of their meaning. I want to be able to recognize the spiritual realities that modeled the physical types of the OC.

Priesthood, tabernacle, sacrifice, temple, throne, seed, Israel/people, mountain and land. All were physical types but with commensurate spiritual anti-types. Why break the type anti-type relationship by moving from the spiritual to the spiritual? When Paul allegorized the relationship between Hagar and Sarah, he wasn’t diminishing the actual flesh and blood realities of their lives, was he? So as we look back, we can see the spiritual ramifications of their fleshly reality, but that doesn’t mean we should only see them from a spiritual perspective. Wouldn’t that short-circuit the purpose.

So Jason, I don’t think any of this is inconsistent with what you said, I just felt it necessary to verbalize the difference between understanding Hebraisms (which is valuable) and kind of mystifying the idea of thinking like a Hebrew. Those comments about Britain bringing us dispensationalism were a great case in point. :) Sorry for the length. Sometimes lately I get carried away. BTW, I liked the tone of the show.

Good show guys. Thanks!

Larry, when the player is open, you should notice a black bar expanding along the bottom. That is the audio loading while it plays. If that bar does not expand all the way across, then the loading was interrupted. If the playing of the audio catches up to the loading, then it might stop for a second or two. Let it sit for a minute before playing and all should be well.

Why does the audio posted here end after about the first 15 minutes of the program?